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FictionAlley Park : Powered by vBulletin FictionAlley Park > The Fanon > V.E.N.O.M. > V.E.N.O.M. Archive > Harry/Hermione or Ron/Hermione? The Deathmarch Continues...
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stacey
Splinched
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 846


Harry/Hermione or Ron/Hermione? The Deathmarch Continues...

Remember:


  • no flaming
  • no insults
  • no personal attacks
  • no LotR parallels, for the love of all that is pure and beautiful
  • no swimming until half-an-hour after you've eaten


Carry on.


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Old Post 8th February, 2002 02:33 AM
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Cygnus
FAPlayground Mod
A Little Green Frog
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 767


Thanks for the new thread Stacey! I was wondering when our old one was going to be closed down.

(Question to mods: How come there's a 200-post rule? I think it's something to do with 'bandwidth', not that I have the first idea what bandwidth is, but as we're going to post the same number of messages anyway, just on a different thread, what's the reasoning behind the rule? If the answer is very technical, then just say so, because I won't know what you're talking about!)

So! R/H or H/H?

I say R/H. What's my reason, you ask?

Reason? Love needs no reason. Love has no reason. Love is precisely that which is defined by its lack of reason.


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Old Post 8th February, 2002 11:05 AM
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Neppi Weasley
Weaving an Invisibility Cloak
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 833


R/H.
I don't have any reasons. I've just always felt that some day they are going to be an old, bickering but lovely married couple who have lots of kids...

__________________
A member of WORS, RIDS, SPCP, and WWHD?. I'm a hard-working HUFFLEPUFF! The Weasleys rule - Arthur for Minister for Magic! (Oh well, it was a good try.) I love Ron! Having a nice, long cruise on the S.S. Burrow. Be my guest to visit Enchanting Finland.

Red ears rock!


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Old Post 8th February, 2002 04:50 PM
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Shirow
Gringotts Curse Breaker
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1976


Thumbs up

Oh , thanks for the new thread. Now things won't be as tense as before. There was a wave of: "I'm right, you're wrong" in the other one. Please let's not repeat that.

If I had to choose, it's be Ron/Hermione. I donn't support this, and I rather dislike H/H. My opinion.

No swimming 'til half an hour??!! Buu! Gotta wait then.

__________________
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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Winston Churchill


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Old Post 8th February, 2002 05:40 PM
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Erica
House Elf, Malfoy Manor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 449


I thought I would reply to this post here as it's more appropriate to this thread.

Jaime wrote on the 'Harry/Ron of equal intelligence' thread

quote:

Heh.. yeah, kind of an off topic rant there. The point being, niether of them show much empathy towards the other, and I'm willing to bet the GoF thing was more of a Women's Intuition. Or hey, I'll go with Michelle's reasoning as well!

(I believe the 'GoF/Women's Intuition' is refering to Hermione knowing Ron likes her - please correct me if I'm wrong Jaime)


I believe I'm starting to like the theory that Hermiione didn't realise that Ron liked her until the day after the 'blow out'. Up until 'Viktor-gate', Ron doesn't really treat Hermione any differently than he has in the last 3 years. They're the 'Three Caballeros', the 'Dream Team' and Hermione is just one of the guy's. Then it dawned on Ron '...you're a girl..' (I'm picturing that scene from 2001 A Space Odyssey where the apes stare wonderingly at the oblisk structure...). The night of the ball Ron realizes that not only is Hermione a girl - she is a pretty girl and she's on the arm of a Quidditch Superstar *** Triwizard Champion. Now insecurity and low self-esteem morph into jealosy and envy and we have 'lift off'. Hermione seems genuinely not to know why Ron's upset '..what's up with you?..' and lo' the Great Hall Brawl is born. Later, the 'Great Hall Brawl' is resurrected as the 'Common Room Brawl'. They are both red-faced, angry, screaming at the top of their lungs -common sense, logic, empathy, sympathy gone out the window and we get Hermione's famous (not so) last words-'next time..ask me before anyone else does....' In the morning when Hermione's calmed down she realises why Ron behaved as he did-that he likes her.

The question now is whether Hermione
(a) realises she likes Ron in that way
(b) realises she doesn't like Ron in that way or
(c) realises she has ambivolent feelings about Ron.

Cheers,
Erica


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Old Post 8th February, 2002 08:12 PM
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Michelle Ravel
Queuing for Quidditch World Cup Tickets
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1022


Yes, that is the question, if you choose to interpret the events before it the way you did.

Quite a few R/H'ers think of Ron and Hermione holding a torch for each other a bit before this event, though.

Dudes...Am I the only one, R/H or H/h, who thinks that Hermione still doesn't know whether Ron likes her? She can suspect/hope, but she doesn't know. In my opinion. Which is what makes their interactions so damn awkward. She doesn't know her own feelings; she's not sure if she wants to figure out his. Or does she? She's sort of pushing the boundaries a bit, not knowing what she can say or do or how to interpret his EXTREMELY weird actions.

And then the "ask me first next time"? Was an actual angry outburst, meaning that she wanted him to ask her first next time.

She was angry, you say? She didn't know what she was saying, you say?

Quite. She didn't know, or else why would she say something as stupid and revealing as that? I think that it must have burst out because of the frustration of it all. It might have been only that month where she actually realised that she did want him to ask her.

I will quote my sister here: "In angry outbursts, you don't say something like that unless you've thought about it beforehand." It has to have occurred to you. In fact, sometimes you just imagine yourself saying it and just wait for the right time to say it...and it bubbles up, and you get madder and madder, and finally you say it. That is what I see that statement to be.

Because, to Hermione, this was the point. If Ron was so bleeping mad about Krum, then he should have ASKED her, because then she wouldn't have just GONE with bloody Krum in the first place and....

That's why she "got the point". It does not mean that "She is the Omnipotent and could definitely tell that Ron was jealous and liked her". Remember, it was just Harry that said that she had "got the point". It just means that Harry knew that the argument between R and H was more about their feelings for each other than about Krum; and that Hermione had hit the nail on the head in bringing up those feelings.

__________________
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For your daily Michelle-rant fix, visit my new blog!
R/H: We all believe in Trees!


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Old Post 8th February, 2002 10:29 PM
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Itsuwari
Joining the Headless Hunt
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 961


quote:
Dudes...Am I the only one, R/H or H/h, who thinks that Hermione still doesn't know whether Ron likes her? She can suspect/hope, but she doesn't know. In my opinion. Which is what makes their interactions so damn awkward. She doesn't know her own feelings; she's not sure if she wants to figure out his. Or does she? She's sort of pushing the boundaries a bit, not knowing what she can say or do or how to interpret his EXTREMELY weird actions.


I don't think Hermione fully realises it either, Michelle. I certainly agree with your reasoning there. She's picking up on it much faster than he is, though.

__________________
the moment I let go of it was the moment I got more than I could handle the moment I jumped off of it was the moment I touched down

A picture is worth a thousand words...Pirate Captain of the S.S. Fiery and Forbidden
Co-Queen of Neil's Harem and Official Defender of Disorganization aboard the Good Ship R/H


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Old Post 8th February, 2002 11:02 PM
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????
Showing First Signs of Magic
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 5


Harry/Hermione or Ron/Hermione

I'm going to bring up that platonic quote again, I don't know whether that's untouchable or something now, but I don't think that the definition one person posted was right. I got the definition from my dictionary that platonic was :Transcending physical desire and tending toward the purely spiritual or ideal: "platonic love.", and one definition of transcending is:To pass beyond the limits of, so I don't know completely if this means anything, but it's just kind of been bugging me


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Old Post 8th February, 2002 11:45 PM
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Shirow
Gringotts Curse Breaker
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1976


Screw the platonic! Sorry. I HAD to say that. We can't say that Hermione/Harry's relationship will ALWAYS be platonic, but to me, personally, it is.

Harry hasn't given it much thought of been in love, I don't see how there is SO MUCH evidence about it, and to some people it's obvious.

Dudes, are you sure that Ron likes her? I mean, sure, maybe he doesn't realise it, but, are you SURE?? I mean.., you will very dissapointed if it turns out another way.

__________________
Mourning, sulking.. || Sirius Lives in our hearts || Goodie goodie fanfiction

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Winston Churchill


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Old Post 9th February, 2002 12:09 AM
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AVK
Feeling decidedly queasy
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 395


I see that H/H is a minority here...

Well I think that Harry and Hermione would be better together...don't really feel like making a very elaborate arguement today. Just this:

I admit that there's a strong possibility that Hermione and Ron will date in the books but that doesn't mean that they'll stay together. How many people in real life do you know that argue all the time and stay together. For instance, my parents argued all the time and they got a divorce...

So if Hermione and Ron go out together, they'll surely break up. Ron will do little things that will drive Hermioen crazy. She will do little things that drive him crazy and the things will build up and then, one day, explode with a huge fight. Haermione will run to Harry for comfort and they will end up snogging.

-AVK

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Old Post 9th February, 2002 12:59 AM
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Erica
House Elf, Malfoy Manor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 449


quote:
Screw the platonic! Sorry. I HAD to say that. We can't say that Hermione/Harry's relationship will ALWAYS be platonic...



Amen to that!!!!

JKR has said a lot of things in interviews that can be interpreted in so many different ways. She said (something like) 'Dudley's privileged existence starts to change for the worse in Book 4' translating to 'Dudley goes on a diet'. Then theres the 'Is there something going on between Ron and Hermione question' the statistician in me screams 'open ended question'. Answer 'yes' to that and it could mean anything, 'he likes her/she likes him', 'he likes her/she dosn't like him', 'he thinks she's a know-it-all/she thinks he's a putz'. And, ah yes, the 'they fall for all the wrong people' quote, which we all interpret based on our ship preference.


Erica


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Old Post 9th February, 2002 01:17 AM
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Michelle Ravel
Queuing for Quidditch World Cup Tickets
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1022


Dudes, are you sure that Ron likes her?

Good question. We take this for granted in most arguments.

Hhmmm...Thought about it. Yes. I'm sure. He's got it BAD. BAD. BAD. We probably take it for granted because it's so bloody obvious to us.

I admit that there's a strong possibility that Hermione and Ron will date in the books but that doesn't mean that they'll stay together.

You know what? They can break up if they want, if they go out and decide it doesn't work. I can see they like each other now, and I'm rooting for them with all my strength!

I'm more concerned with existing feelings and tensions that I feel...at least in the fandom! They're what excite me in the book--and what I want to read about and discuss!

Then, when they go out, I'll be rooting for them to stay together! But not everything works. Who cares. Whatever. Stuff happens. I hope it'll work...but whatever's good for them. I will be sad if they break up and just decide to be friends but I'll get over it.

This, however, definately does not mean that Hermione will think, "Well, it didn't work with this friend--onto the next one, then! Com'ere, Harry!"

__________________
Whoever said you can't have beauty and brains was just jealous of those of us in RAVENCLAW!
For your daily Michelle-rant fix, visit my new blog!
R/H: We all believe in Trees!


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Old Post 9th February, 2002 03:36 AM
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Erica
House Elf, Malfoy Manor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 449


quote:
This, however, definately does not mean that Hermione will think, "Well, it didn't work with this friend--onto the next one, then! Com'ere, Harry!"


I don't believe that Hermione is out 'trolling' for boyfriends-'working' thru all the boy's in her acquaintance until she finds one with whom she 'clicks'.

Having said that, why would having a failed relationship with Ron preclude her from persuing a relationship with Harry if she felt that she like Harry in that way. If she honestly feels that she likes him and he likes her what is the problem?


Erica

Last edited by Erica on 9th February, 2002 at 03:15 PM

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Old Post 9th February, 2002 02:44 PM
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Itsuwari
Joining the Headless Hunt
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 961


quote:
If she honestly feels that she likes him and he likes her what is the problem?


And supposing she didn't, or he didn't? As the books have presented the characters of Harry and Hermione at this point, I feel that a relationship between the two of them would violate certain things about their characters. I don't have my books on hand to try to give a more detailed explaination (or maybe I'm just trying to cop out and hope that one of the more articulate people will help me out...) but there does seem to be something fundementally wrong with a romantic relationship between these two. Ever. Unless J.K. does something dramatic to change their personalities completely.

__________________
the moment I let go of it was the moment I got more than I could handle the moment I jumped off of it was the moment I touched down

A picture is worth a thousand words...Pirate Captain of the S.S. Fiery and Forbidden
Co-Queen of Neil's Harem and Official Defender of Disorganization aboard the Good Ship R/H


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Old Post 9th February, 2002 10:57 PM
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Shirow
Gringotts Curse Breaker
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1976


And amen to that! Thanks Erica! ;D

Oh..Itsuwari? You are right about the H/H thing. Harry didn't even notice Hermione was PRETTY, sorry, a GIRL until (I know it's hard to accept, H/H shippers. Take a deep breath..) Book 4. She was one of the guys, no ONE never took a second glance at Hermione.

The Yule Ball changed everything, I guess. It might have waken some "hidden feelings" of Ron to Hermione. Harry did notice she was a girl then, and, didn't make a very big comment. Yes, he said she looked pretty (if my memory doesn't fail me), and all, but didn't make such a fuz about it. Why would that change with a KISS? Wait, I'm sorry, it was hardly a kiss. A peck on the cheek. I remember someone in this forum once told a story about how he and his girlfriend got together..with a peck on the cheeck. But Harry didn't think anything special about it instantly, although it was in the very end of the book, Harry had more important things to think about, and, didn't give it much care.

Nor did he?

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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Winston Churchill


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Old Post 9th February, 2002 11:45 PM
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Red XIV
Parseltongue Translator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1043


I think you WILL have to elaborate on that. WHAT would be so wrong about it? That you think Hermione should be with Ron instead? I see no reason that a relationship between Harry and Hermione would be "fundamentally wrong".

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Red XIV
Pumpkin Pie Knight

“Harry needs her badly.” - J.K. Rowling, on Hermione


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Old Post 9th February, 2002 11:48 PM
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Shirow
Gringotts Curse Breaker
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1976


And you ARE speaking to me, or who else? I can't say anything, since I never know.

Personally.. I don't think that Harry and Hermione aren't a good couple, they just haven't showed any sort of affection for each other, specially from Harry, since we see things trough him. I.. Hermione and Ron have showed what can be called as "more than friends" feeling, than Harry has with Hermione. That's what I think, so that's why I said Personally

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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Winston Churchill


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Old Post 10th February, 2002 12:00 AM
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Erica
House Elf, Malfoy Manor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 449


quote:
I feel that a relationship between the two of them would violate certain things about their characters. I don't have my books on hand to try to give a more detailed explaination (or maybe I'm just trying to cop out and hope that one of the more articulate people will help me out...) but there does seem to be something fundementally wrong with a romantic relationship between these two. Ever.


Well, as far as we know, they are not 'related' (unless of course we find out in book 5 that Hermione and Harry are twins separated at birth - I mean, come on! both their names start with 'H' -it can happen! ) So ethically/morally speaking there is nothing wrong with them becoming romantically involved.

And here I'll introduce another excerpt for discussion. What do you think are the implications of this statement:

'Miss him? (Ron)' said Harry, 'I don't miss him...'

But this was a downright lie. Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter, and a lot more hanging the around the library when Hermione was your best friend.'

Erica


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Old Post 10th February, 2002 12:55 AM
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pam
Rereading OotP
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 380


Exclamation hello...h/h

harry and hermione?! separated at birth?! well, unlikely I think because why isn't voldemort trying to kill hermione too or something?! why doesn't hermione have green eyes?! black hair?! she doesn't even look like harry.

anyway, probably harry wasn't enjoying hermione's company that time because he had the burden of thought that he wasn't in good terms with ron but if harry-ron was okay then he could concentrate on entertaining hermione.

so what if harry didn't notice hermione until book four?! to end up with someone, you don't have to notice him/her immediately as in love @ first sight or something. there's some kind of development. i mean isn't that better?! that you see the change in the relationship. platonic... noticing... noticing... liking... and so on.

quote:
Screw the platonic! Sorry. I HAD to say that. We can't say that Hermione/Harry's relationship will ALWAYS be platonic...


I agree. Haha... screw the platonic! (ah, a new motto for me.) *g*
ciao! I love shipper debates. hehe...

__________________
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Harry/Hermione
"Oh, come on, Harry," said Hermione, suddenly impatient. "It's not Quidditch that's popular, it's you! You've never been more interesting, and frankly, you've never been more fanciable."

Harry was finding the Great Hall very hot all of a sudden, even though the ceiling still looked cold and rainy.


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Old Post 10th February, 2002 04:40 AM
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MaxLoneWolf
Seventh Year
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 251


H/Hr. There is absolubtly nothing wrong with it.

Alrite. I am Back into this discussion.
H/Hr POV here.

There is absolublty nothing wrong with r/Hr (although disullusioned in my opinion) nor is there anything wrong with H/Hr. (might be something wrong with D/Hr or Snape/Hr...ew seperate matter..)

R/Hr - Bicker like Married couples?
H/Hr - Best friends turn lovers?

Both relationships have been seen, yet most of them that i know are H/hr kind. Not the bicker type, the bicker types end in Divorce...thats from my experience so its worth nothing...

Now. No Evidence of H/Hr? Well then you Must be horrible at interpreting the deeper meaning of books. When your read a book you don't look for the obvious. "Ron is jealous" "Ron loves Hermione" "Hermione loves Ron". But all H/Hr shippers will say, there is No solid Paper proof of H/Hr. But if you look real close with a microscope, you'll see the setup. Just like how in "The Count of Monte Cristo" all the pieces of revenge come together, it looks subtle, innocent, but in once moment, everything will fit, and it will be unexpected.
I'm not saying it won't end r/Hr. But as most H/Hr shippers think, it will Not last. They will fight all the time ,Hermione wants to go study for her OWLS Ron wants to play Chess or Quidditch. It just won't work for the long road. R/Hr shippers I know your arguements, I've revised them, and I am dead determined on this.

Now. On the subject of Harry noticing Hermione. Yes he did notice she was a pretty girl at age 14. So? He noticed the change, he didn't act all mad at her for some unknown reason...You have to remember that Harry is a 14yr old boy. He has fought the Dark Lord 2times, faced a convict, betrayer of his parents and countless other heroics. Romance is at the back of his mind, even Cho is mentioned minimally and she's his Crush. He does Not have time to think of her like that.

r/Hr - It is true that love is irrational. It can make you fall for a person for weird reasons. And even though Ron is "inferior" to hermione they CAN be together, H/Hr shippers WON'T say they CAN't be together. I Shall however say : They look Horrible together. <--My Opinion.

As all Love are irrational, they are actually quite rational.
Lets break it down.
Why Ron would have a crush on Hermione
- a pint of lonelyness
- pint of desperation since Hermione is the only girl he has a real conversation with
- she did look pretty at the Yule Ball....otherwise she's ok...
- subconsciously "something the Great Harry Potter dosn't have"
- she somewhat cares about him, not a lot of girls care about him in Hogwarts..actually only Gin and Herm...
There all for the wrong reasons. In my opinion. If he talked more wiht Lavender, they'd be good together. Now I like Ron, he's an alrite friend and hilariously funny but incredibly insensitive to Hermione. He's just a normal guy, I'm one too.

Why Herm would have a crush on Ron, IF she does.
- lonelyness "Before Viktor Krum, nobody expressed any interests" she's is bookish, not stunningly pretty...
- Ron is there for Harry, most of the time...
- Ron is courageous when loyalty drags it out of him...
- he's sarcasticly funny...
- my best theory, Hermione is in love with "the idea of being in love" since she's lonely, she wants to be in love. Not want to be with Ron and Is in love. Since Ron somewhat expresses interests in her, no one else as and Viktor is rather volatile, if they can be together and be in love, everything would be dandy.
As you see, the wrong reasons to be together...
She would be better with someone more understanding, sensitive, dosn't have to be more intelligent although it would help...

H/Hr
- Harry is a great guy "Caring" "Gentle" "Polite" "Courteous"
"sensitive" "understanding" (he took the Firebolt incident better than Ron) "brave"
- he cares and would risk anything for a friend
-subconsciously = (he's the Hero, quidditch star)
- Sad Puppy effect (mistreated yet still turned out quite good)
- he's nothing but courteous and understanding to herm, no arguements...

Bottom line. Its our perception and opinions. I can only hope that people can open their eyes, see the deeper meanings...but then again. I might be totally wrong and be totally blind. But I doubt it.
I would really be totally surprised if it dosn't end H/Hr.

PS. I DO think R/Hr are going to date a while. I believe it will be short and violent though....well enough with my opinions...
Don't be too offended....i sorta get carried away sometimes..

Sir Max
Part of the Fellowship of the Pumpkin Knights
Proud Believer in H/Hr.
"One day, you shall open your eyes and you.shall.See"

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